TV Interview ORF (Vienna, Austria ’88)

Question: How do you discriminate a false guru and a genuine Guru?

Interviewer: I did read in the Press Communiqué that one of your topics is the topic of Guru, of gurus. Gurus, false gurus. Now what are they? How do you discriminate a false guru and a genuine Guru?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve been talking against them since I think, 1970 very openly, even naming them. It’s very easy to make them out, you see, they are out for money. It’s the shopping. And they are out for money. They know the need of the hour. It’s like the demand and supply business, you see. It’s an economic activity. And, anybody who asks for money, one must know it’s not real.

Now, for example, your Realization is a living process. And we don’t pay any money to the Mother Earth to sprout the seed. Of course, but say, supposing, these people have started this Ashram. Now, here there are so many living. I don’t know how they spend, how they live, it is their lookout. They know all accounts, everything, I don’t bother. I am very bad at money myself. And also, you see they are the ones who collect money, and put up the posters and things like that. But for Realization I cannot take money, for curing you I cannot take money. I mean, there’s no question, you cannot value it. This has no economic value.

Interviewer: So you would say the discrimination is if somebody is interested in money – or not?

Shri Mataji: First. First chance. Second you must see the life style of such a person. Supposing such a man leads a very funny life, immoral life. And tells you big stories, then you should know that this is wrong, because a person who himself is not pure has no business to make others pure. There are many things described about false gurus in our scriptures, thank God. And so if you see their behaviour, that they say something and do something else. And they have scandalous life behind it. But the disciples just hide it, because they think, now we have jumped in the sea so let us have it. They just go through it. They are exposed, so many of them are so badly exposed, but still their disciples find it difficult to get out, because they are under their control, their spell. They know that this man is wrong. He has done so much wrong. Like Rajneesh, now see, he has been found out. There are so many Germans who go to him, in Poona. And about this man I told long time back that he is wrong type of person.

Question: Are there any mantras?

Shri Mataji: Yes there are, there are mantras which are according to the centers, which are in trouble.

Agnya - Optic Chiasma. The Centre of ChristFor example, this is the center between the optic chiasma, is the center of Christ. So now, if the Kundalini has stopped at that point, then you have to take His name, and it opens up. But you have to be a Realized soul first of all. You must have the authority. Then it opens out that center. So for every center there is a different deity. And at that center we have to take that particular name. It’s nothing haphazard, it is very scientific.

Question: Shri Mataji… Now what said Buddha, for instance?

Interviewer: Now what said Buddha, for instance? He was talking about the way which is soft in the beginning, soft in the middle and soft in the end.
Shri Mataji: Yes, He did, but Buddha’s times are over now. We have passed through that also. Those times are over now. Buddha had, you see – because

Paintings of Buddha, Preaching in Deer Park and from Ajanta Caves India

Buddha Himself was so surprised later on that if you talk about God, you see, people just start thinking about God, about this and that – so He said, “Don’t talk of God, just talk of Self Realization, that’s all.” Because He wanted to pin down people, you see, to the real way of progressing, and not to just indulge into unnecessary ritualism and this and that. That’s why He said so. But actually those times are over and you can get your Realization, no doubt. It is proved now. They all have got it, they all have felt Cool Breeze, you can see their faces. They don’t go to doctors, they are keeping all right, they are having a nice time.

Interviewer: What about, I mean, in the traditional books there is described that each chakra is combined with magical capabilities?
Shri Mataji: Of course, it is, it is.

Interviewer: Are those people all sorcerers in this aspect? (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They all know about it, every chakra has a different quality. Like the first Shri Matajichakra is the chakra of our excretion, excretes everything from us, you see. And it has a special quality that it is the one that gives us holiness, auspiciousness, wisdom. The second chakra gives us aesthetics. When second chakra is – what shall I say – ignited, or is awakened through Kundalini, then people suddenly become aesthetics. We have many like that. Then they become suddenly great scientists. Recently one boy has discovered a very unique type of, what you call, switch which he does not know how he discovered it. So, like that every chakra has a boon to give. No doubt about it.

Question…If you look throughout the world, then more wars than ever, more people than ever.

Lotus Gallery

Interviewer: I personally would doubt that human society has ripened, or has improved. If you look throughout the world, then more wars than ever, more people than ever.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is, it has to be, it has to be. It has to be at the worst time when we will be having.

It’s written down in the Nala Akhyana. Is there was one fellow called Nala, and his wife was separated by this Kali, the one who is ruling now. Kali is the modern times deity – Kali, Kali Yuga this is. And he caught hold of this Kali. He said, “I am going to kill you, because you are the one who puts us into confusions, into all demoralization and everything, so better I kill you.” He said, “See, I have also one importance.” “So what is your importance?” He said, “The importance is such that at the time when there will be Kali Yuga, I mean that’s the blackest time of Kali Yuga, that’s the time those who are seeking me in the hills and dales will become householders, and they’ll get their Realization.” He said it.

So this is the time, not only the time, but the maturity comes through witnessing all these things. That’s why they are taking to it. Why there is so much seeking today? Because they see all these things happening. So there are people who are just ready.

I agree with you, to look at, it looks horrible, like a pond full of worms. But I have seen lotuses coming out of it, fragrant lotuses, giving fragrance. You see the lotuses. And we have small little lotuses also. (Laughter) Quite a lot of them all over the world. You’d love to see them. The world can be easily changed. It’s difficult for people to understand that it is true. That’s the only trouble is. Because, you see, they – I don’t know in what world they live. I don’t know what – they don’t believe in it. Now see, these people are here. They are people who have been cured by – so many people have enjoyed Sahaja Yoga. But still it happens. I think it will come. It will happen. India is an easier place to work out Sahaja Yoga. Because they know about it, and they have felt it. They are more – they are not in, you see, they cannot do shopping, they cannot do guru shopping. Thank God we are not so rich. (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) So all the gurus have come down here, you see, to lynch you nicely. (Laughter) And make you do this. But some of them have been really very cruel, I must say, very cruel people. The way they have destroyed, they have destroyed so many people, made so much money.

Interviewer: Sure [inaudible ].
Shri Mataji: Horrible, horrible, it is. So, you can’t make money out of it at all. And one gentleman who came from BBC told Me that Anglo-Saxon brain cannot understand anything without money. What do you say to that?

Interviewer: I think it’s not true.
Shri Mataji: It’s not true. Because how can it be? How much money did you pay to Christ? To anyone of the real saints, I am saying. But the whole system is like this working, what to do? I’m sure it will work out, I’m sure. It has to spread. And it will work out, no doubt. Look at the happiness on their faces when I say that. (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)

Question: …is one of the signs of New Age that you are travelling around?

Interviewer: So would you see it as, I mean to come backWillaim Blake to the question of the New Age, is one of the signs of New Age that you are travelling around?
Shri Mataji: Nothing, this is the New Age I have started. You see, we had a very great artist from India who came here, he is a shennai player. He is a Muslim gentleman. He said, “These are all [Khalists ?], these are all pure people, Khalists people. So you are making a Khalistan here.” I said, “Yes, this is the Khalistan which Nanaka has described.” So he said, “What are they making?” I said, “You go and ask them what are they making? Where there is war and killing and all that going on, there is no Khalistan. These are Khalists, the pure people. And it’s described in all the prophecies.

In India there was a prophecy done by a very old astrologer. I think, he was the first – he is the pioneer of astrology. And he is the one who said, “Such and such time is going to come, and that Kundalini is going to be awakened, and that people are going to get this blessing, and this will be the New Age, and that people will become realized other people.” Even William Blake has so clearly said. William Blake has said, “God of men,” I mean, His prophecies are to such a detailed thing, that even in London where our Ashram will be he has described. To that extent. So it’s all there.

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