Question: Shri Mataji, what about teachers or gurus who produce miracles. You go to a guru who will materialize something out of the air and say, “This is divine.” That’s a….

(From Radio Interview 1983 Oct 01, Santa Cruz USA)
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, what about teachers or gurus who produce miracles. You go to a guru who will materialize something out of the air and say, “This is divine.” That’s a….

Shri Mataji: This is all jugglery. It’s all jugglery. And also, you see, now supposing somebody says, “I produce a diamond.” Now, these people come from India, why don’t they solve the financial problem of India? [laughter and applause]

Secondly, you see, at every point they can be challenged. You should say that … then all right, one gentleman came to Me and said that, “He gave me a diamond.”

I said, “Why you? How many diamonds you have?”

He said, “Hundreds.”

Then I said, “Why did he give you? He should give to your driver who hasn’t got a diamond.”

You see, that is what it is. So, it is all jugglery. You should see those who materialize, what have they given you? They have to give you something eternal. If they talk about God, God is not going to give you diamond. Which God has given diamonds to people? Have you heard of anyone giving diamonds? No! [laughter] So, you should ask for something which is the highest, which is the supreme most.

Now, the fourth thing which is very important that whatever experiences you get, for example, some people start just like jumping, some start shouting, some start behaving like animals. And, they say, “Oh, that’s what is coming out. We are taking out, you see.”

They feel very bad, they get horrible diseases, they get into troubles and they get into pains and all sorts of things and contortions. They say, “Now your subconscious is coming out.”

Nothing has to be brought out. That’s one thing you must know. The subconscious, as I told you, is on the left hand side and the supraconscious on the right hand side. What you have to do is to ascend in the center and come up. Above your head is the superconsciousness and when you become that, then you develop collective consciousness. So, those who want you to become like frogs again, you must know that you are not going to become frogs anymore. That’s not anyway evolution. The evolution has to go higher, not becoming frogs or earthworms, you see. And if you start crawling, it is simple mesmerism. Anybody mesmerizes can do these tricks, you see. It’s simple mesmerism. And, then to believe that now you are surrendered and all that is all nonsense, you see. It has no meaning to Realization. In Realization, you just become the master. You become the master of it.

There are many people in this country who came and lured you by their talks also. Talking big about Brahma, Atmatatva, this that and everything – that is not the way you can… That is what is just the pendulum moving from Christian sermon to Hindu sermon and from Hindu sermon to Islamic sermon, from there to the Rabbi sermon. It goes on like that, you see. That’s not the way. You have to rise higher within yourself. And, that’s why those who lecture about these things are really sometimes can be very, very dangerous. And, so many have died of cancer, this, that. I don’t know what to say that people who go to these people get into very bad troubles and suffer so much. And, then on top of that when all this happens, they say that, “You must suffer.” That’s a very good excuse. [laughter] “You must suffer.” You must pay to suffer. Pay money to suffer. [laughter] And, then people go on suffering.

Now, one thing I have to tell you that Christ has suffered for us. We don’t have to suffer anymore. Those who deny His sufferings will have to go for suffering. All right, have it! But He suffered for us. There is no need for us to suffer anymore. When He is awakened within us, He takes away all that is our ego means our karmas, our superego, that is our conditioning completely removed and you become one with the Divine. There is no need for anybody to suffer and this idea of suffering is all nonsensical. You should not suffer at all.

Interviewer: Good! [laughter] I’m glad it’s over.

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