Q: Is reincarnation necessary until Self-Realisation is attained?
Shri Mataji: That is again, you are thinking about the past. You see, why to worry? You have reincarnated many-a-times. No doubt about it. But now, this is the point: at this point, where are you? There’s no need to have reincarnations, who is going to count? From amoeba to this stage how many times reincarnated why do you want to know? Forget it. At this time you have to have your spirit, enlightened. Alright? Forget about the past. Just forget it. And then we start to …. specially in India, they’ll ask Me, ‘Was I a king? Was I this? Was I that?’ I said, ‘I am not bothered about the history.’
There was a boy … very scholarly … he came and asked Me, ‘Mother was I Napoleon in last life?’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘Even if I was don’t tell me, otherwise I’ll jump in the sea.’ I said, ‘No, why, why what makes you think that way?’ He said, ‘Because I’m very ego-oriented, my ego is colossal and another point is I’m very good at drawing so I think these two combinations are only possible in a Napoleon.’ I said, ‘No, no, you were not Napoleon, don’t you worry.’ He said, ‘Otherwise I will jump in the sea and take another incarnation!’ So don’t worry about these things, alright? It can be quite deviating. There is a big show going on, I agree there. ‘What was my last life?’ Somebody said, ‘You were in Egypt’ – what does it matter? Whether you were in Egypt or Timbuktu, what does it matter? You, this is a big a story going on, people paying money … now tell me what is … and they are telling also very nicely about this, you see?
You must ask a question, ‘What were you last time?’ Must have been a donkey! Otherwise, why is he taking money for this?
Interviewer: I did read in the Press Communiqué that one of your topics is the topic of Guru, of gurus. Gurus, false gurus. Now what are they? How do you discriminate a false guru and a genuine Guru?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve been talking against them since I think, 1970 very openly, even naming them. It’s very easy to make them out, you see, they are out for money. It’s the shopping. And they are out for money. They know the need of the hour. It’s like the demand and supply business, you see. It’s an economic activity. And, anybody who asks for money, one must know it’s not real.
Now, for example, your Realization is a living process. And we don’t pay any money to the Mother Earth to sprout the seed. Of course, but say, supposing, these people have started this Ashram. Now, here there are so many living. I don’t know how they spend, how they live, it is their lookout. They know all accounts, everything, I don’t bother. I am very bad at money myself. And also, you see they are the ones who collect money, and put up the posters and things like that. But for Realization I cannot take money, for curing you I cannot take money. I mean, there’s no question, you cannot value it. This has no economic value.
Interviewer: So you would say the discrimination is if somebody is interested in money – or not?
Shri Mataji: First. First chance. Second you must see the life style of such a person. Supposing such a man leads a very funny life, immoral life. And tells you big stories, then you should know that this is wrong, because a person who himself is not pure has no business to make others pure. There are many things described about false gurus in our scriptures, thank God. And so if you see their behaviour, that they say something and do something else. And they have scandalous life behind it. But the disciples just hide it, because they think, now we have jumped in the sea so let us have it. They just go through it. They are exposed, so many of them are so badly exposed, but still their disciples find it difficult to get out, because they are under their control, their spell. They know that this man is wrong. He has done so much wrong. Like Rajneesh, now see, he has been found out. There are so many Germans who go to him, in Poona. And about this man I told long time back that he is wrong type of person.
(Public Lecture, Brisbane 5th May, 1987)
Shri Mataji: In the beginning they do little bit. Is still they are not settled down. You see they have to mature in Sahaja Yoga no doubt. But in the beginning they do little bit differ but not much. In the beginning they do little bit sometimes differ, that I have seen because one has to mature first of all. Once they are matured they don’t. They are very much in union with each other. There’s no difference at all.
Interviewer: We are about at the end of the (radio) interview and what I want to do now, Mother, is give you a chance to say what’s in your heart to say. What is there that You wish to share that has not been said this evening?
Shri Mataji: I have to say that America is a great country in the universe. It has the place of the Vishuddhi Chakra, which is the center of responsibility and discretion. And, they have been so responsible. So far they have given such noble ideas of democracy and of freedom and all those things which are really all belonging to God’s ideas. And, when they talk of all these things, we must know that there is something much more that they can give to the whole world. So many saints are born in this country because they realize that this is the country where they’ll be able to prosper better into their spirituality. So, it is a very great responsibility of Americans to understand that we have had great leaders, we have had great noble ideals, we have had got great saints living here. So many are anxious to come down here. Only thing what we have to do is to establish within ourselves our Spirit, and to be ready and prepared for this great, tremendous work that is going to come now. And, this is what the world has to do. If emancipation of the humanity has to take place, it has to take place only from inside out and not outside in.
Another thing, I would like to tell that the danger is not from outside for America, not from anywhere else. It is from within themselves. So be careful. We have to be careful about ourselves – the way we are destroying. When we say, “What’s wrong?” we go head long into our destructions. Human beings should not take freedom as abandonment, but freedom to enjoy completely and fully. The freedom that takes you to a destruction is not freedom. The right idea of freedom must be taken. And, people should know that freedom, ultimate freedom, is when you become your own master, when there are no habits, when you cannot be dominated by anything. You are above everything. That’s the freedom you have to achieve, and that is why people talked long time back in this country about freedom. They helped all the countries to get their freedom, and now it is their job to get them their own freedom within themselves so that others will also follow.
May God bless you all.
Interviewer: Thank you, Mother.
Interviewer: How much are you, I mean, I said my last question half an hour before. (Laughter) How much are you influenced by Christian ideas? Shri Mataji: You mean Christianity or Christ? Interviewer: Yes. I don’t know – define it, I mean, whatever is important for You. Shri Mataji: Christ is very much there, no doubt, but Christianity I don’t know, it’s like all other religions, it has diverted. There was a book recently which I read Gnostic, which was – you might have also heard about it, when Saint Thomas on his way to India wrote this thing and put it in a jar in Egypt. It was found out about 48 years back. Gna in Sanskrit means ‘to know’. And in that whatever he has written challenges all our Christian ideas. First is that we must suffer, that God wants us to suffer for Him, and all these ideas of Christianity – we should confess our sins, and all that is being challenged. So about Christianity – I was Myself born in the Christian religion. And I was quite surprised the way we are following Christ. Because if we had followed Him properly – the first thing He has said is that, “You have to be born again.” And when He said that again we branded ourselves ”we are born again”. Just like so many people brand themselves as “Brahmins” or anything. But you are not born again, because a born again person has powers, has powers of raising the Kundalini. So, like that, Christ has said that, “You are to be born again,” meaning you have to have your Kundalini awakened. It‘s very clearly given in our Shastras, that a bird is called as a dwijaha, means born twice and a Brahmin is called also a dwijaha, means born twice. Means the Brahmin has one birth as a human being and second birth as a Brahmin when he knows the Brahma, means the All pervading power. In the same way a bird is born as an egg and then is reborn as a bird. So this is what is clearly given that you are to be born again, means that you have to get your Realization. Christ has said so many things, like He said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” Now tell Me Christians what do you think about their eyes? Why Christianity has failed? Why has it failed everywhere? The problem with them is that they have not followed Christ as they should have. And it’s all diverted. The whole thing is so diverted. Now also I don’t understand why Paul is in Bible. Paul has nothing to do with Christ. He was epileptic. He was the one who killed Stephen. He was the one who killed so many Christians. He just had the supra-conscious experience of a cross and finished. He is an organizer. And do you know now the Protestants are going so far to say that Christ was a human being – finished. Because they can’t go anywhere near Him. So call Him a human being. They are even going up to the point to say that He was homosexual, what do you say to that? I mean, they go on saying every sort of thing about Him, who was the only Son of God.
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