TV Interview ORF (Vienna, Austria ’88)
Archived Posts from this Category
Archived Posts from this Category
Interviewer: I did read in the Press Communiqué that one of your topics is the topic of Guru, of gurus. Gurus, false gurus. Now what are they? How do you discriminate a false guru and a genuine Guru?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve been talking against them since I think, 1970 very openly, even naming them. It’s very easy to make them out, you see, they are out for money. It’s the shopping. And they are out for money. They know the need of the hour. It’s like the demand and supply business, you see. It’s an economic activity. And, anybody who asks for money, one must know it’s not real.
Now, for example, your Realization is a living process. And we don’t pay any money to the Mother Earth to sprout the seed. Of course, but say, supposing, these people have started this Ashram. Now, here there are so many living. I don’t know how they spend, how they live, it is their lookout. They know all accounts, everything, I don’t bother. I am very bad at money myself. And also, you see they are the ones who collect money, and put up the posters and things like that. But for Realization I cannot take money, for curing you I cannot take money. I mean, there’s no question, you cannot value it. This has no economic value.
Interviewer: So you would say the discrimination is if somebody is interested in money – or not?
Shri Mataji: First. First chance. Second you must see the life style of such a person. Supposing such a man leads a very funny life, immoral life. And tells you big stories, then you should know that this is wrong, because a person who himself is not pure has no business to make others pure. There are many things described about false gurus in our scriptures, thank God. And so if you see their behaviour, that they say something and do something else. And they have scandalous life behind it. But the disciples just hide it, because they think, now we have jumped in the sea so let us have it. They just go through it. They are exposed, so many of them are so badly exposed, but still their disciples find it difficult to get out, because they are under their control, their spell. They know that this man is wrong. He has done so much wrong. Like Rajneesh, now see, he has been found out. There are so many Germans who go to him, in Poona. And about this man I told long time back that he is wrong type of person.
Interviewer: How much are you, I mean, I said my last question half an hour before. (Laughter) How much are you influenced by Christian ideas? Shri Mataji: You mean Christianity or Christ? Interviewer: Yes. I don’t know – define it, I mean, whatever is important for You. Shri Mataji: Christ is very much there, no doubt, but Christianity I don’t know, it’s like all other religions, it has diverted. There was a book recently which I read Gnostic, which was – you might have also heard about it, when Saint Thomas on his way to India wrote this thing and put it in a jar in Egypt. It was found out about 48 years back. Gna in Sanskrit means ‘to know’. And in that whatever he has written challenges all our Christian ideas. First is that we must suffer, that God wants us to suffer for Him, and all these ideas of Christianity – we should confess our sins, and all that is being challenged. So about Christianity – I was Myself born in the Christian religion. And I was quite surprised the way we are following Christ. Because if we had followed Him properly – the first thing He has said is that, “You have to be born again.” And when He said that again we branded ourselves ”we are born again”. Just like so many people brand themselves as “Brahmins” or anything. But you are not born again, because a born again person has powers, has powers of raising the Kundalini. So, like that, Christ has said that, “You are to be born again,” meaning you have to have your Kundalini awakened. It‘s very clearly given in our Shastras, that a bird is called as a dwijaha, means born twice and a Brahmin is called also a dwijaha, means born twice. Means the Brahmin has one birth as a human being and second birth as a Brahmin when he knows the Brahma, means the All pervading power. In the same way a bird is born as an egg and then is reborn as a bird. So this is what is clearly given that you are to be born again, means that you have to get your Realization. Christ has said so many things, like He said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” Now tell Me Christians what do you think about their eyes? Why Christianity has failed? Why has it failed everywhere? The problem with them is that they have not followed Christ as they should have. And it’s all diverted. The whole thing is so diverted. Now also I don’t understand why Paul is in Bible. Paul has nothing to do with Christ. He was epileptic. He was the one who killed Stephen. He was the one who killed so many Christians. He just had the supra-conscious experience of a cross and finished. He is an organizer. And do you know now the Protestants are going so far to say that Christ was a human being – finished. Because they can’t go anywhere near Him. So call Him a human being. They are even going up to the point to say that He was homosexual, what do you say to that? I mean, they go on saying every sort of thing about Him, who was the only Son of God.
Shri Mataji: Yes there are, there are mantras which are according to the centers, which are in trouble.
For example, this is the center between the optic chiasma, is the center of Christ. So now, if the Kundalini has stopped at that point, then you have to take His name, and it opens up. But you have to be a Realized soul first of all. You must have the authority. Then it opens out that center. So for every center there is a different deity. And at that center we have to take that particular name. It’s nothing haphazard, it is very scientific.
Interviewer: What is your tradition. I mean the tradition of Sahaja Yoga, since when does it exist as an idea?
Shri Mataji: I think from times immemorial, because this is the only way you can raise Kundalini, by a Realized Soul. But used to be only once – one person, maybe two persons maybe. Like we can say the Tree of Life had one or two flowers to begin with. But today is a Blossomtime. That’s what I am taking advantage of.
Interviewer: Yes. There is no founder or something, some mythical person?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, nothing mythical, no, nothing mythical. But Nanaka has talked about it. Kabira has talked about it. Adi Shankaracharya has talked about it. Fourteen thousand years back Markandeya has talked about it. But only problem is this that today what I have done is to give it to masses. Any discovery if it doesn’t go to the masses it is of no use.
Interviewer: Doesn’t go to the what?
Shri Mataji: Masses, en-masse, masses, many people.
Interviewer: Many people. And when I talked of Yoga traditions, it is not only Hatha Yoga, there is also Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Now, Raja Yoga also is another thing, which is a very big misconception we have, because people don’t know what is Raja Yoga, so they try to – I mean, I don’t know, they have brought in something very artificial.
To give an analogy I will tell you this way. That when the Kundalini rises automatically within us, [bandhas ?] take place, means, the holding of the Kundalini takes place. Then also – of course it’s a mechanism that works the whole thing, all right, automatically, spontaneously. What they do is like without starting the car, they start moving the wheel. The car won’t move. They do all these things which are described when the Kundalini rises. But it is a spontaneous happening, innately done within yourself. It is not that you can do it from outside. So when they talk of Raja Yoga what do they say? They used to even cut the tongue of people. Continue Reading »
Interviewer: Now what said Buddha, for instance? He was talking about the way which is soft in the beginning, soft in the middle and soft in the end.
Shri Mataji: Yes, He did, but Buddha’s times are over now. We have passed through that also. Those times are over now. Buddha had, you see – because
Buddha Himself was so surprised later on that if you talk about God, you see, people just start thinking about God, about this and that – so He said, “Don’t talk of God, just talk of Self Realization, that’s all.” Because He wanted to pin down people, you see, to the real way of progressing, and not to just indulge into unnecessary ritualism and this and that. That’s why He said so. But actually those times are over and you can get your Realization, no doubt. It is proved now. They all have got it, they all have felt Cool Breeze, you can see their faces. They don’t go to doctors, they are keeping all right, they are having a nice time.
Interviewer: What about, I mean, in the traditional books there is described that each chakra is combined with magical capabilities?
Shri Mataji: Of course, it is, it is.
Interviewer: Are those people all sorcerers in this aspect? (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They all know about it, every chakra has a different quality. Like the first chakra is the chakra of our excretion, excretes everything from us, you see. And it has a special quality that it is the one that gives us holiness, auspiciousness, wisdom. The second chakra gives us aesthetics. When second chakra is – what shall I say – ignited, or is awakened through Kundalini, then people suddenly become aesthetics. We have many like that. Then they become suddenly great scientists. Recently one boy has discovered a very unique type of, what you call, switch which he does not know how he discovered it. So, like that every chakra has a boon to give. No doubt about it.