TV Interview ORF (Vienna, Austria ’88)
Archived Posts from this Category
Archived Posts from this Category
Interviewer: How much are you, I mean, I said my last question half an hour before. (Laughter) How much are you influenced by Christian ideas? Shri Mataji: You mean Christianity or Christ? Interviewer: Yes. I don’t know – define it, I mean, whatever is important for You. Shri Mataji: Christ is very much there, no doubt, but Christianity I don’t know, it’s like all other religions, it has diverted. There was a book recently which I read Gnostic, which was – you might have also heard about it, when Saint Thomas on his way to India wrote this thing and put it in a jar in Egypt. It was found out about 48 years back. Gna in Sanskrit means ‘to know’. And in that whatever he has written challenges all our Christian ideas. First is that we must suffer, that God wants us to suffer for Him, and all these ideas of Christianity – we should confess our sins, and all that is being challenged. So about Christianity – I was Myself born in the Christian religion. And I was quite surprised the way we are following Christ. Because if we had followed Him properly – the first thing He has said is that, “You have to be born again.” And when He said that again we branded ourselves ”we are born again”. Just like so many people brand themselves as “Brahmins” or anything. But you are not born again, because a born again person has powers, has powers of raising the Kundalini. So, like that, Christ has said that, “You are to be born again,” meaning you have to have your Kundalini awakened. It‘s very clearly given in our Shastras, that a bird is called as a dwijaha, means born twice and a Brahmin is called also a dwijaha, means born twice. Means the Brahmin has one birth as a human being and second birth as a Brahmin when he knows the Brahma, means the All pervading power. In the same way a bird is born as an egg and then is reborn as a bird. So this is what is clearly given that you are to be born again, means that you have to get your Realization. Christ has said so many things, like He said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” Now tell Me Christians what do you think about their eyes? Why Christianity has failed? Why has it failed everywhere? The problem with them is that they have not followed Christ as they should have. And it’s all diverted. The whole thing is so diverted. Now also I don’t understand why Paul is in Bible. Paul has nothing to do with Christ. He was epileptic. He was the one who killed Stephen. He was the one who killed so many Christians. He just had the supra-conscious experience of a cross and finished. He is an organizer. And do you know now the Protestants are going so far to say that Christ was a human being – finished. Because they can’t go anywhere near Him. So call Him a human being. They are even going up to the point to say that He was homosexual, what do you say to that? I mean, they go on saying every sort of thing about Him, who was the only Son of God.
Shri Mataji: Yes there are, there are mantras which are according to the centers, which are in trouble.
For example, this is the center between the optic chiasma, is the center of Christ. So now, if the Kundalini has stopped at that point, then you have to take His name, and it opens up. But you have to be a Realized soul first of all. You must have the authority. Then it opens out that center. So for every center there is a different deity. And at that center we have to take that particular name. It’s nothing haphazard, it is very scientific.
Interviewer: What is your tradition. I mean the tradition of Sahaja Yoga, since when does it exist as an idea?
Shri Mataji: I think from times immemorial, because this is the only way you can raise Kundalini, by a Realized Soul. But used to be only once – one person, maybe two persons maybe. Like we can say the Tree of Life had one or two flowers to begin with. But today is a Blossomtime. That’s what I am taking advantage of.
Interviewer: Yes. There is no founder or something, some mythical person?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, nothing mythical, no, nothing mythical. But Nanaka has talked about it. Kabira has talked about it. Adi Shankaracharya has talked about it. Fourteen thousand years back Markandeya has talked about it. But only problem is this that today what I have done is to give it to masses. Any discovery if it doesn’t go to the masses it is of no use.
Interviewer: Doesn’t go to the what?
Shri Mataji: Masses, en-masse, masses, many people.
Interviewer: Many people. And when I talked of Yoga traditions, it is not only Hatha Yoga, there is also Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Now, Raja Yoga also is another thing, which is a very big misconception we have, because people don’t know what is Raja Yoga, so they try to – I mean, I don’t know, they have brought in something very artificial.
To give an analogy I will tell you this way. That when the Kundalini rises automatically within us, [bandhas ?] take place, means, the holding of the Kundalini takes place. Then also – of course it’s a mechanism that works the whole thing, all right, automatically, spontaneously. What they do is like without starting the car, they start moving the wheel. The car won’t move. They do all these things which are described when the Kundalini rises. But it is a spontaneous happening, innately done within yourself. It is not that you can do it from outside. So when they talk of Raja Yoga what do they say? They used to even cut the tongue of people. Continue Reading »
Interviewer: Now what said Buddha, for instance? He was talking about the way which is soft in the beginning, soft in the middle and soft in the end.
Shri Mataji: Yes, He did, but Buddha’s times are over now. We have passed through that also. Those times are over now. Buddha had, you see – because
Buddha Himself was so surprised later on that if you talk about God, you see, people just start thinking about God, about this and that – so He said, “Don’t talk of God, just talk of Self Realization, that’s all.” Because He wanted to pin down people, you see, to the real way of progressing, and not to just indulge into unnecessary ritualism and this and that. That’s why He said so. But actually those times are over and you can get your Realization, no doubt. It is proved now. They all have got it, they all have felt Cool Breeze, you can see their faces. They don’t go to doctors, they are keeping all right, they are having a nice time.
Interviewer: What about, I mean, in the traditional books there is described that each chakra is combined with magical capabilities?
Shri Mataji: Of course, it is, it is.
Interviewer: Are those people all sorcerers in this aspect? (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They all know about it, every chakra has a different quality. Like the first chakra is the chakra of our excretion, excretes everything from us, you see. And it has a special quality that it is the one that gives us holiness, auspiciousness, wisdom. The second chakra gives us aesthetics. When second chakra is – what shall I say – ignited, or is awakened through Kundalini, then people suddenly become aesthetics. We have many like that. Then they become suddenly great scientists. Recently one boy has discovered a very unique type of, what you call, switch which he does not know how he discovered it. So, like that every chakra has a boon to give. No doubt about it.
Interviewer: I personally would doubt that human society has ripened, or has improved. If you look throughout the world, then more wars than ever, more people than ever.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is, it has to be, it has to be. It has to be at the worst time when we will be having.
It’s written down in the Nala Akhyana. Is there was one fellow called Nala, and his wife was separated by this Kali, the one who is ruling now. Kali is the modern times deity – Kali, Kali Yuga this is. And he caught hold of this Kali. He said, “I am going to kill you, because you are the one who puts us into confusions, into all demoralization and everything, so better I kill you.” He said, “See, I have also one importance.” “So what is your importance?” He said, “The importance is such that at the time when there will be Kali Yuga, I mean that’s the blackest time of Kali Yuga, that’s the time those who are seeking me in the hills and dales will become householders, and they’ll get their Realization.” He said it.
So this is the time, not only the time, but the maturity comes through witnessing all these things. That’s why they are taking to it. Why there is so much seeking today? Because they see all these things happening. So there are people who are just ready.
I agree with you, to look at, it looks horrible, like a pond full of worms. But I have seen lotuses coming out of it, fragrant lotuses, giving fragrance. You see the lotuses. And we have small little lotuses also. (Laughter) Quite a lot of them all over the world. You’d love to see them. The world can be easily changed. It’s difficult for people to understand that it is true. That’s the only trouble is. Because, you see, they – I don’t know in what world they live. I don’t know what – they don’t believe in it. Now see, these people are here. They are people who have been cured by – so many people have enjoyed Sahaja Yoga. But still it happens. I think it will come. It will happen. India is an easier place to work out Sahaja Yoga. Because they know about it, and they have felt it. They are more – they are not in, you see, they cannot do shopping, they cannot do guru shopping. Thank God we are not so rich. (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) So all the gurus have come down here, you see, to lynch you nicely. (Laughter) And make you do this. But some of them have been really very cruel, I must say, very cruel people. The way they have destroyed, they have destroyed so many people, made so much money.
Interviewer: Sure [inaudible ].
Shri Mataji: Horrible, horrible, it is. So, you can’t make money out of it at all. And one gentleman who came from BBC told Me that Anglo-Saxon brain cannot understand anything without money. What do you say to that?
Interviewer: I think it’s not true.
Shri Mataji: It’s not true. Because how can it be? How much money did you pay to Christ? To anyone of the real saints, I am saying. But the whole system is like this working, what to do? I’m sure it will work out, I’m sure. It has to spread. And it will work out, no doubt. Look at the happiness on their faces when I say that. (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)